Separation of Powers

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Posts by Separation of Powers

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  8

  God has always used one channel, one group of people, to communicate his messages to.

  by poopieskoopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, since time indefinite jehovah has always used only one channel (his people) to reveal himself and future events to.. are we to totally disregard the dreams given to nebuchenezzer, then king of the world, in the book of daniel???

  yes, dreams directly from god himself to a pagan deviate with a weird name.

  why were they not given to daniel???

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  Separation of Powers

  @Sir82

  My sentiments EXACTLY!

  No FDS means no clear channel, just a bunch of static for 2000 years. Eusebius, Polycarp, Agustine, Martin Luther, Wycliffe, Tyndale.....voices in the wilderness.

  SOP
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  33

  Fading ... Do You Owe Witness Friends An Explanation?

  by What Now? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm curious about what you all think on this subject.

  when my husband and i became irregular about a year ago, and then inactive around 5 months ago, i felt that it would be hypocritical to take advantage of the social side of the witness community if we weren`t going to meetings or in service.

  we stopped entertaining (which we did quite regularly - theme parties, card parties, movie nights, big turkey dinners, breakfasts on holidays etc), and i slowly stopped accepting invitations for get togethers, playdates etc.

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  Separation of Powers

  Hey WhatNow?

  I appreciated your sarcasm, myself, being a firm believer in sarcasm, thougt it witty and on point.

  The established social order in the organization is the only reason some stay in. I would venture to say most.

  To leave the organization is, for some, to leave the only social order they know. That is a devastating option for some, so they choose to remain. For the brave, however, there is a whole world of people out there that are innately sociable! Can you believe that!

  Aristotle stated that "man is, by nature, a social animal." I, for one, believe this to be true. There are plenty of people out there that agree with this concept. You simply have to reach out and socialize. No, you don't have to go to bars. You can get behind a cause, something that you firmly believe in; something upbuilding in its truest sence. Not in the "upbuilding" sense of the organization, which simply means, "be positive and encourage more effort." ("Don't worry...WORK." N.H. Knorr) When your heart is behind something that other hearts are behind, your connection with other people will be lasting and genuine.

  I know it's hard. Some, like me, are content to have had a limited social circle within the organization. So, leaving it, or abandoning it rather, was not so hard. Others struggle a little, mainly because they were told that they should extricate themselves from society. Well, now that you have extricated yourself from the Society, it's time to wedge yourself back into that crowded subway train and head on down the line.

  SOP
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  31

  Fading hurts so much!!

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yet another update on my story:.

  for various reasons, i still have to go to all meetings.

  (i am looking to change my personal circumstances to allow me to live somewhere else so i can fade easier)... i actually don't mind going to the mid-week meeting since i can comment on the bible reading, and slowly but surely i can introduce little seeds of cognitive dissonance... making it seem like i am super interested in what the interlinear says or that people can actually go and check out the manuscripts for themselves online!

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  Separation of Powers

  I think most on this board can sympathize with your feelings and situation. I would like to address a portion of your post, you mentioned that you sometimes just want to say, "....Apparent contradiction. EVIL APOSTATES would say that."

  In the DC part about "Human Apostates," the brother was very careful to specify the difference between "doubters" and "apostates." For him, it was all about tone. The viewpoint that apostates desire someone to follow them is the crux of the organization's argument. Many people are leaving, enticed but what they have read or seen. Others, however, are simply falling by the wayside. They are mentally checking out because it just doesn't make any sense. Some leave and make a scene, others leave and no one knows why...and interestingly, no one particularly cares to ask.

  For one, I have never heard as much commotion regarding an adjustment in teaching as I have heard about the FDS change. Old timers are concerned. They recall the 1981 article about the "objectors." They remember the attack against those that were "not of our sort" that had the audacity to question doctrine and the hierarchical structure of the organization. Now, they see that the same belief that was categorically dismissed as arising from objectors, namely, the identity of the FDS being classified as the worldwide remnant of anointed...a class.

  That same objection is now the standing doctrine. There is no "class." There is only the GB.

  This, unfortunately, is hard for many to swallow and the organization is experiencing the blowback. Therefore, the need to define the difference between a "doubter" and an "apostate." Afterall, you can't have a CO or DO speaking to his fellow CO's or DO's or even members of the Writing Committee and questioning things be labeled as an apostate can you?

  So, when you find it hard to swallow something, it may be best to speak in terms of doubt or don't speak at all. You would be surprised how many old timers are doing the same thing.

  SOP
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  54

  my first post and some questions

  by wallievase in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is my first post after deciding to finally open an account here after months of 'lurking'.. a couple of issues i want to address-.

  i have issues with people who go from being a witness to losing all faith in god or the bible which seems to be the case with some members of this site.

  i just don't think you can let any religion change how you view god or the bible.. second-i don't feel the gb are bad people, i think most witnesses including them are misguided by something that has been drilled into their heads since they were little and are actually sincere people.

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  Separation of Powers

  Wallievase,

  I think alot of people become so disilusioned by what they have experienced and the indoctrination against Christendom and all other religions so strong that they simply give up on God. They are taught that this is the true religion and when it fails to live up to their expectation of "true," then they find no other alternative but to leave God out of the equation of their lives.

  As for the GB not being bad people, I will not argue with that. Another poster referred to the "captives of a concept" mentality. When one believes that they are endowed by their creator with special privileges and that God works through them, the authoritarian structure is the logical progression.

  In any event, good luck on your quest for truth. Don't allow the rhetoric to get you down, that's just how some people cope.

  SOP
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  40

  Former Longtime Elder : Contributions

  by James Jackson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for a year now, i have been handling the accounts.

  we have 6 elders and 7 ms, and none of them ( i am not serving), want to do the accounts, so they asked me to do it.

  here is what i have noticed.. 4 elderly sisters cover the whole congregation in donations monthly!

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  Separation of Powers

  JJ,

  The accounts is by far one of the most time consuming responsibilities in the cong. Other than the Secretary position, it is also the most thankless. With regard to contributions, my question would be...how are the donations for the WWW? That is really the only thing that matters to the HQ particularly when congregations share the same hall. When contributions for upkeep are down in one hall, there will customarily be the "equalizing" talk given in other halls.

  As for contributions from elders, well, why contribute money when you give so much time for free? There has to be an "equalizing" there too.

  SOP
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  28

  What other ancient Greek Manuscripts contained the divine name?

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the society in appendix 1a of their 'kingdom interlinear translation of the christian greek scriptures' refers to nine other greek manuscripts as containing the divine name, and they quote from jerome as referring to certain 'greek volumes' containing the tetragrammaton.

  can anyone shed any light on what these greek manuscripts and volumes are and their dates of writing?

  here is what the society says in full: .

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  Separation of Powers

  Sorry I posted 6 years late...

  There are no greek manuscripts of the new testament that date to the original period of the 1st century. Any manuscript that contains the Tetragramaton would date centuries later. To use the LXX or Septuagint as the basis for reinserting the "name" into the new testament is not supported by the majority of scholars. Why? Because they are two separate and distinct works for one, written by two different groups of people with a different perspective and purpose.

  Some would state that to insert the "name" into the New Testament, except only in cases where it may appear in the LXX as a direct quote is a cause for concern.

  SOP
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  31

  What Is The "Typical" Elder In The Organization Like Now?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i was an elder, most of the elders were pretty independent 40 to 80 year olds.

  they had no issue speaking up to the circuit overseer.

  i wonder what the average elder is like now.

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  Separation of Powers

  I can't speak for everyone else, but I find them to be distant and uncaring. Sure, they get up and give their parts, most of which are a simple rehash of the information as most of them appear to have poor study skills and simply don't care about the deeper things. Shepherding is non-existent except for the sister with the unbelieving mate who is always making the phone call. The kids are utterly abandoned as most elders don't even bother validating their existence. The only, and I mean only time that there is a visible measure of effort is when the CO is coming.

  It is a sad reflection of the loss of faith and postponed expectation, the lack of appreciation for their efforts and the guilt that most feel thinking about leaving the post or the obvious repercussions that they would expect from the gossiping group if they ever did. It is all about going through the motions.

  SOP
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  10

  What course are you on?

  by Separation of Powers in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading julia's comment about how she and her husband have become the epitome of evil (lol) moved me to post.

  i have several family members and close friends that have faded or simply walked away.

  each of them has chosen a different course.

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  Separation of Powers

  Reading Julia's comment about how she and her husband have become the epitome of evil (LOL) moved me to post. I have several family members and close friends that have faded or simply walked away. Each of them has chosen a different course. Some have embraced a more "liberal" lifestyle with its accompanying "partying" and such. Kinda like they wanted to make up for the "lost time" they experienced in their youth.

  Others have continued in the spiritual journey looking for God in some other place than the KH, embracing another set of rigid rules and hoping for a different experience.

  Others, like the Orwells, have chosen to just enjoy life while apparently maintaining a measure of, I don't know, a modicum of decorum.

  Whatever the case, we all choose our own paths after the departure. I, for one, am transitioning from the rigidity to a simpler perspective on life and what it means. I know that is a simplistic description, but it is the only way to adjust to reality.

  What has been your experience with the path you have chosen? and Why did you choose it?

  SOP
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  122

  Do You Regard President Obama In The Same Way As You Did BEFORE The Election?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  lately, even late night comedians are starting to make fun of the president.. i hear more negatives about the president than ever before---even from his own voters.. (i had high hopes for him when he beat mccain but since then, i believe the president has been a huge disappointment)..

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  Separation of Powers

  All I can say is, "The Audacity"

  SOP
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  165

  Board of bitterness

  by 1009 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

  but still this religion fascinates me.

  in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

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  Separation of Powers

  I have read many post on this forum and found that very few people are truly "bitter." Some simply want to share their experience and reflect on how it has affected their lives. Others vent, sure, but they are content with where they are in life. Others, well, others cannot get past their experience. I, for one, do not blame them.

  It is akin to a romantic relationship, an "all-in" relationship where you put your heart on the line. When it ends, some say, "well, if that person doesn't love me anymore, than I will move on. I would rather be happy alone then miserable with someone." Others might say, "There is no way that you are going to leave me without regretting it! I will make your life miserable!" Same relationship, same scenario, different perception, different reaction.

  Anyone raised in or around the organization is expected to be "all in." It affects every aspect of your life and every decision you make. When you find that it's time to leave, or it has left you, than your reaction will be just that....a reaction, your reaction. No one on this forum can take that away from you cause it is "your experience." To question the validity or basis of your reaction, to condemn or demean it whether calm or bitter, is to devalue your unique experience... and no one...no one has that right.

  SOP